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Thread: QUALYS and Lord Sumption

  1. #1

    Default QUALYS and Lord Sumption

    Been discussing this with my daughter.

    Healthcare was rationed more subtly in the past I’ve been to,d.

  2. #2


    I saw an article about his appearance on Question Time in the Telegraph over the weekend. I cannot see whole articles in the Grauniad, so assume it is on the same subject but with a different perspective perhaps.

    I have enormous respect for Lord Sumption and think he was absolutely right and the panel member with a potentially terminal cancer condition was wrong to personalise his point of view.

    Taking an objective view, a 30 year old’s life is more valuable than a 60 year old’s, because the older person has largely lived theirs already whereas the younger one has many decades still to live. Similarly I would advocate saving a healthy, fit person over trying to save a person who was already terminally ill if it was necessary to choose between the two of them.

    Does anybody disagree with this?
    Gilli - DLTBGYD but more importantly KCHO

  3. #3
    Super Member Mamie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Village in rural Lancashire


    No, I agree Gilli.

  4. #4
    Club Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    South Norfolk


    Depends on how the 30 year old has lived their life, the 60 year old may have add quality to many people's lives and still has more to give.

  5. #5


    People may not like what he has to say but this is literally how the NHS worked before Covid...

    It is exactly how deepmind (Google it - that may be recursive) will work when it gets let loose to plan health care and public health in general!
    The worst bigots in the world are those who most loudly proclaim their ‘tolerance’

  6. #6
    Club Plus Member Sarah(sjc)'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010


    It's worth bearing in mind that an intensively treated older person has cost the NHS significantly more that is allowed for some life-changing treatments by NICE.

  7. #7


    Absolutely! They've thrown the rule book out of the window and burnt it for covid!!

    The worst bigots in the world are those who most loudly proclaim their ‘tolerance’

  8. #8


    I exaggerate but the point is a bit valid!
    The worst bigots in the world are those who most loudly proclaim their ‘tolerance’

  9. #9


    Gilli, Matt et al. I think can see what you all mean. It’s so difficult to work this one out. Would a thirty year old be able to share the wisdom I’ve learnt from you all and Ted? Suppose the 60 year old is responsible practically and financially for looking after a disabled adult child? Yes the child is going to need support in the future and why can’t the child and support services get used to it now. It’s not just a matter of finance either. Can assure you that professionals that think they are doing a service, the ‘do gooders’ are not I frequently the ‘do wrongers’.

    Q1 Why haven’t I caught Covid?

    Yes I know, you’d tell me a covid joke but there’s a 99.696% chance I wouldn’t get it. On my recent trip to A & E being moved to and fro. The paramedic said I was the only non-covid patient they’d had during their 12 hour shift (hope they’d wiped the rails to get in, chair, arms and lap bands over). She was working essentially alone the driver was an ex-policeman. Guess he’d been taught basic resus and first aid. In the past she would have shared the medical and driving work with a colleague and been alerted if something went awry. They are also using firemen to drive. Guess they are used to driving large vehicles. Getting to the hospital was complicated by a naff sat nav and the Mayor of London blocking the major routes to the hospital with cycle lanes. The emergency services have complained; minimal changes made. Anyway have counted up. Was moved 17 times. If I had covid droplets on my clothes wonder where I’ve left them.

  10. #10


    Q2 a and b and c
    Does testing work wholisticlly.
    Battled with 999 when I wasn’t feeling well enough to discuss that I didn’t have covid symptoms. Useful as it turned out, my anger stopped my rapid heart rate. Pros and cons of still going to hospital discussed with paramedic, made the mistake of going. Had an interesting chat with the hospital discharge nurse in her office. As routine for those in her role she’d been covid tested and found positive. She’d had no symptoms. Her partner had a sticky eye not uncommon when mask wearing. She told him he’d got covid, got him tested and she was right.

    B How many times have we come into contact with the nasty and NOT got it?
    I got moved 17 times at least. Some necessary but I can’t see how that avoids the spread of infection. I’ve taken someone to casualty in the past. Waited 5 hours to be seen with someone with severe breathing problems (pre covid). It was like Oxford Street on the first day of the sales. People on stretchers with paramedics in the waiting area. Pregnant women, children waiting. Little children were transferred to the paediatric A & E. On my latest trip the place as like a ghost town. Could count the number of patients on one hand.

    C Should carers be allowed in too? An elderly man wanted to leave before his results were back from the lab. Later saw him being helped into a vehicle by presumably his daughter. Some people are decidedly ungrateful and ungracious for the help they are being offered. The nurse said this wasn’t unusual. He wasn’t drunk or affected by recreational drugs. She tried her best to persuade him to stay. It was near the end of her (night shift). She was p’d off and profoundly expressed the desire to hand in her notice and go home to her family the other side of the world.

    The highlight of my time there was seeing some dishy looking army lads. Made me feel better. They’d been assigned to help with portering services.

    I can criticise the NHS for lots of things but lives are saved and if we don’t look after it there’s going to be the death of an important organisation.

    My sister is in hospital in the US. It’s recently been bought by Monsanto, the company that genetically modify crops. Are they interested in health or profit?


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